Kindex™ the Online Family Organization record-keeping and transcription software

Was Charles Rich from Logan or up north?

Charles Rich, he was born in Farmington like the rest of the boys. Or I think he was technically born in Farmington if I recall correctly.

No maybe he was in Iowa, but anyway.

But he moved, when he married he moved to Morgan, and that Morgan and Porterville area.

And then he married one of the Woolley's, Emma Woolley, yes.

And then he got married again just before 1890, which was when the official declaration,

I think it was 1886 or 1888, something like that.

But his father, Woolley, was against the change of not allowing polygamy to continue.

And so he had to take a step in the direction of, do I follow my father-in-law, sorry, his

father, I should say, his father-in-law.

Do I follow my father-in-law's direction or do I follow Wilford Woodruff?

So he had to stand up in front of the Young Men's Improvement Association, I guess over

in the Morgan area, he was a president over there, and basically say that he was going

to follow Wilford Woodruff and not his own father-in-law.

That was a pretty hard thing because he had just barely married a second wife just before

that.

Second wife was, it will come to me eventually, Bagley, no not Bagley, that was different.

Second wife, Waldron, Annie Waldron Clark.

So she was a Waldron from that area and she went to go live with the Woolies, believe

it or not, and couldn't stand it and moved to Farmington with Susan and Ezra.

Mary and Ezra, she liked Mary and Ezra way back when she left the Woolies.

Can you imagine living with your husband's first wife's parents?

Oh my goodness, but he was in favor of her staying married to his son, right?

Oh yeah, they were married before 1890, so it was what it was, but the underground was live and well.

And so, Charles Rich had to hide, you know, and same with her, she had to kind of be this discreet, you know, person that just happened to be living with Ezra and Mary all the while, right?

While he lived and Morgan was kind of going back and forth over the mountain there in Farmington.

So, it was something else. Charles Rich was very secretive in his journals and wrote very cryptic ways just because he didn't want to be arrested like his father ultimately was.

for polygamy. Ezra was arrested and I don't know how many years he served but they shaved off his beard which was really a challenge for Ezra.

But anyway, I represent Charles Rich Clark and there's representatives from each child of Ezra. All the boys, all the girls, there's a representative.

Unfortunately, most of the people that turn out are from the first wife, not the second

wife.

So we are trying to get more from the second wife.

First wife is named what?

Mary Stevenson.

Oh, yeah.

That's Susan Leggett was the second.

Oh, sure.

I know those too.

Yeah.

So anyway, as the representative of Charles Rich and doing Kindex, I have kind of told

the Clark organization what we're doing with the software and they've footed quite a bit

of money to help our company and I think they've given us about $4,000 to $5,000 to help us

get to a point. So in turn, in exchange, we've been making this really robust archive of anything Clark. So from Ezra all the way down for two generations. So Ezra, Ezra's children, Ezra's grandchildren. And you happen to be a great-granddaughter of Ezra? That's right.

Not a granddaughter, but a great-granddaughter.

Not a great.

But we are eager to do interviews of anyone, Clark, who is still living, and in their older years.

So we have been doing that a little bit here and there.

I do not know if you know Ellis.

I do not remember his first name.

I am forgetting his first name.

But he lives in Farmington.

Ellis.

First name is, I'll tell you here in a moment.

Would he have been at the reunions recently?

No, he kind of didn't come very much.

Aren't there reunions every other year?

Was there one last June?

Yes.

I missed that.

I missed that too, and I would have loved to go.

We do have it on video.

Do you?

The whole thing, the speakers and everything, so I'll share that with you before we leave.

Make sure you remind me.

Okay, because I want you to send that to me too.

Yeah, yeah for sure.

I don't know how I missed that, but I missed it.

Now before we jump into the interview, do you feel like you need to take a restroom break or anything?

Do you want water?

Anyone thirsty?

I'm fine.

Okay.

And you want me to do the simplified questions?

Are you okay with that?

You know what, let me ask you.

Remember those two lists of questions I gave you

at my last?

There was the simplified version and then there was the basic that probably had double the amount of questions.

And what did you give me?

I gave you both.

And I wondered which one?

When?

When we came to visit on—

This week?

Uh-huh, on Friday when we came to visit. Chris and I—

Do you want a copy?

I have my copy.

Yeah, we've got it right here.

In fact, yeah.

It's okay.

Do you want me to get you the copy? Well, you know what? Just listen to his questions.

I should have one.

Yeah, I'll just go.

You do have it.

The long ones are kind of—

Long.

Yeah.

They are pretty tedious, and I do not want to get into that too long.

= = =

So tell me, what is your full name?

Beverly Joyce Clark Johnson.

So you are giving him with Beverly Joyce Clark.

Yeah, I do not know where I ever got Joyce.

But anyway, that is the middle name that I do not use much.

I just do Beverly Clark Johnson.

Got it.

And when were you born?

1931.

And where?

Chicago, Illinois.

Uh-huh.

Really?

Chicago.

What part of Chicago?

Cook County, which was on the north side near Howard Street, divided Chicago and Evanston.

Maybe downtown Chicago.

We went to church in the Edgewater Beach Hotel.

Do you know that?

No.

No, it's gone now.

I've been in that area.

Do you remember?

Oh, it was such a grand hotel that looked out over on Lake—it built on Lake Michigan.

And that is where we had church.

Oh, great.

And it was fun.

Why Chicago, of all places?

What brought your parents to Chicago?

Oh, medical school.

My dad went to Northwestern.

My dad grew up in Georgetown, Idaho, but he wanted to be a doctor.

And he got accepted to Northwestern.

So he moved to Chicago to go—isn't that right?—to go to Northwestern Medical School

from Georgetown, Idaho.

I thought that was interesting.

He had—and I don't know why he thought so big, because he could have just gone to

Utah and stayed around here.

What was your father's name?

Russell B. Clark.

And the B is in—why do you smile?

Because I have a lot of records from Russell.

Oh, do you?

He knows Russell.

Do you?

Yes.

You know my dad?

He has some records of Russell in the Clark.

Well, I thought the B was interesting, because later I asked him why the B. And he said he was just Russell Clark.

But he felt when he went into medicine or went away that he should have an initial to to be more prominent or more.

So he just put in the B, Russell B. Clark.

And one time he said it was for Benedict,

Russell Benedict Clark.

Did you ever hear that?

No, I heard Barrett.

Oh, I see.

And that would be a family name, Barrett, yeah.

So he wasn't given that name?

No, just Russell Clark.

Oh, you know, grew up on a farm in Idaho.

So they just did not bother with initials and middle names, I guess.

And who was Russell's father?

Wilford Woodruff Clark was me.

State Senator, right?

Maybe so.

Idaho State Senator.

Maybe, I do not remember that.

And patriarch and bishop.

A lot of those things.

A lot of responsibility.

All right.

And your mother, tell me about your mother.

Ruby Dorius Clark.

She was born in Wales, Utah.

Do you know where Wales is?

Do you?

It's this big next to the mountain.

She was born there.

And then she always liked—I think she always wanted to go to Hollywood to be a writer.

She really liked that industry.

And for a while she played the piano in, maybe it was in Manti, somewhere down there.

She played the piano for something to do.

She played the piano accompanying silent movies.

In the movies she'd do the piano to go with the script.

And then she said to the family, let's move to Salt Lake City, because they were just

Nephi and those little towns.

And she said, let's move to, she got them to move to Salt Lake City so that she and her brother could go to the University of Utah.

Do you know that?

Is that right?

You want to fill in?

You probably know more.

And so they moved to Salt Lake with her brother Glenn and her brother Byron and Sister Eva, four of them.

With her brother Glenn?

Do you know him?

Glenn Dorey.

Dorey.

Dorius.

So Dorius was the surname.

I know a Glen Clark, but not a Glen Dorius.

Oh, he's a cousin.

Yes.

Yeah.

We got to know Glen.

So she talked to me in the movie, Salt Lake, so that, what's the reason?

Well, she went to English, she majored in English at the University of Utah.

Yeah, I guess so.

But they had to leave the farm in Wales, and I do not think they left it.

They did not sell it.

Well, I think she—as I remember, it was her suggestion to have the family move to

Salt Lake so she and Glen could go to University of Utah, which they did.

Then she taught school.

What else did she do?

Did Eva teach too?

Because I thought both girls taught school and both men became doctors.

Well, it might be.

I don't remember Eva teaching.

But the men became doctors.

The whole family seemed to have teachers and doctors in my mother's family way back.

The men were either teachers or doctors.

Two good professions.

That's interesting. So tell me the name of your mother's parents.

Okay, Ethel Reese Dorius. Let's see, her father was John Nicolai Dorius and her mother was Ethel Reese Dorius. Is that right?

So I didn't catch the name of your father's mother.

So your grandma?

Grandma Clark.

So Wilfred Woodruff's wife?

What's her name?

Pamella.

Oh, okay.

Pamella.

Does she know the mystery?

I haven't discussed that mystery, but her oldest daughter, their oldest daughter is

Pamela, and I'm sure a lot of that was because of Pamella.

Did you know Pamella?

No.

She died, I think, when I was two years old.

And I think, I heard, what I heard is that she went back to Chicago, because I was born there, and she hadn't seen me.

So she went back to Chicago, and then my dad, I think, always felt bad that he sent her back home to Utah on the train, and she got cold and pneumonia and died.

And I think he—

before my dad was born. And he always had this search. He always wanted to get to know his grandmother that he never knew. And he interviewed Russell's brothers, and he learned a lot about Familia. Just he was interviews.

And I think he felt bad because they saved money by having her come on the train. Well, they didn't fly in those days, but maybe it was a cheaper way.

But it was a cold train.

She wasn't probably dressed appropriately.

So, she got sick and she died.

So, it was actually from cold, from exposure, or just ultimately, just she got like the

cold and—

Maybe everything, yeah.

Okay.

She was just after seventy.

She had her seventieth birthday somewhere.

So, she was older.

Yeah, she was, yeah.

But I wouldn't consider that a lot.

She's the one you should interview.

She knows more than I do.

But—

Or I'd forget him.

So, this is your grandmother.

Okay.

Mm-hmm.

Now, who, let's see.

So this is your grandmother.

Okay.

Now who—let's see.

So she died in her seventies.

And then did your grandfather remarry?

Well he had a secret, didn't he have a secret second wife?

Well he had been sealed to her, right?

But she never lived under the same roof because Pamelea said no second wife lived under our roof.

Right.

But I think he put her up in—

Salt Lake City?

Oh, man.

Oh, maybe so.

I was thinking somewhere in Idaho.

What do you remember about that situation?

As a little girl?

Oh, I did not know as a little girl.

I heard all this as an adult.

Okay, but when you went and visited Grandma and Grandpa—

Oh, yes.

The second wife was there, and they called her Aunt Niece.

Her name was Pernice Bagley.

Is it Pernice?

say that. Pernissie Bagley. But as a child, we called her Aunt Niece.

Aunt Niece.

Yeah.

Pernissie.

Yeah, I have it written that it was Aunt Niecy, but maybe it was Niece.

Oh, do you?

Uh-huh.

So, did you drive up to Georgetown to visit her and him?

Uh-huh. Well, I grew up in Chicago. We would come out to Utah for holidays.

You drove west?

Thanksgiving.

Okay.

Sometimes Indian drive up to Idaho.

Wow.

To see the farm.

I remember in Chicago your whole childhood.

Oh, yeah.

And, yeah.

Wow, what was that like?

Oh, I loved it.

I loved Chicago, because a big thing in Chicago for me was the church.

And as I said, we went to church at the Edgewater Beach Hotel, which was just very romantic and exciting.

So in a sacrament meeting on Sunday nights when everyone was gathered, when they had night meeting, the kids would all take off and go to the, what was it called?

Anyway, the drinking place.

We'd leave Sacramento and go to the casino or whatever you call it.

About something else.

We ditched church to go to the bar.

And the reason was because—

You?

Me?

I didn't know you did.

I thought it was my dad with the other young man.

No, I thought I knew it was you.

I thought I would get my girlfriends into it.

And why we do it is because—

And wait, wait, wait.

How did you do it without your parents knowing?

I mean, they just stayed seated on the pew and you guys just left?

Probably.

Yeah, we were all seated together.

And Edgewater Beach Hotel had a yacht club, and to get in the yacht club, there was water underneath and then a bridge on top that would, you know, vibrate because of the water.

And we just loved ditching sacrament meeting and going down and going back and forth over this bridge that was just dangling.

So, I don't know, isn't that funny?

I remember that.

Huh?

But you wouldnít go drink. Or you would go drink.

Never, never, never. They were twelve.

Okay, okay.

They were little.

Oh yeah.

Yeah. But I remember my dad talking about that going like in the morning during Sunday school. Theyíd split for classes and he and his buddies would go get donuts and then come back.

Oh.

So that theyíd be there at the classroom, but they always had like donuts in their pockets.

They were at the hotel.

Yeah.

For sure.

Yeah.

It was a lot of distractions.

Yeah.

Tell me about some of your siblings.

I'm the oldest, Beverly, and then John.

There's a picture there.

And he's two and a half years younger.

He's in the front there on his way to Ethiopia.

He went over there and then he came back and he died.

And I always wondered if he caught something in Ethiopia.

He thought so too.

He thought he caught one of those hepatitis A, B, C, or D or whatever.

Anyway.

So John was a year and a half, two and a half years younger.

And John and I were really close friends because the next sibling was my sister Barbara, born

about eleven years later.

So he and I, and what I remember is Sunday morning, my parents would sleep and John and

I would get up and pull the sheets off our bed.

We'd set up a card table in the living room, put the sheets over the card table and go

get some cookies in the kitchen and come back in and go under the sheets into our little

house made of card table and sheets and sit and eat cookies.

From—

Well, your parents slept in.

From why they slept in, yeah.

So, I had a lot of memories growing up, you know, with my brother.

So, tell me about this mischievous side of the Clarks.

Where does that come from?

I don't know.

I found it rife in all Clark lines.

Oh, really?

There is mischievousness.

You get answers to that?

There is all kinds of mischievousness in the Clark side.

That is great.

So tell me about, have you told me all of your siblings?

There are three of them or two of them?

John, Beverly, John, and Barbara.

And Barbara was born eleven years later.

And Barbara was an answer to my prayers, because I told my parents I kept praying for a baby

sister.

So I keep telling them that.

Finally they said, you're going to have a baby, you know, as baby sister.

So Barbara is my younger sister.

And then there were two families, because my dad remarried, you know that, I guess.

Oh, my dad?

Okay, my dad was married to my mother, and there were three children from that.

Ruby.

Ruby, uh-huh.

And then they divorced, but she also died.

But while she was living, he married Donna.

He had a second wife while he married Donna.

And he and Donna had two boys, Robert and Steven.

So my dad had five children by two wives.

And does your younger sister Barbara give praise to you all the time because she exists

because of you?

No.

She should.

Yeah, I don't even—

Say, I prayed you here.

Thank you.

Yeah.

We really—we don't connect unless I initiate it.

I see.

You know, she's willing to talk, but she never calls me.

Yeah.

Okay.

All right.

Tell me some experiences from your early grade school years in Chicago.

Well, I remember going to school one day.

I was about fourth grade, and I had lost one of my shoes.

For some reason, I could not find it.

So I remember walking—oh, I walked about six blocks to school.

I had on one shoe of mine and one shoe of probably John's.

I had to have shoes to walk to school.

And I remember growing up, we lived six blocks from the Edgewater Beach, the water, and the

Edgewater Beach Hotel was there where we also had church.

But I can remember just a lot of memories walking to church or school or something.

I just remember growing up in Chicago, and I liked it.

And we lived in a brownstone apartment on the first floor, and going up to there, there

were about 20 steps.

And I can remember really young, I must have been five or something, a man chasing me.

I thought he was chasing me, and I got scared.

And I remember one of my visual things is running up these stairs to the door, knocking

on the door, so my mother would open it.

But I remember being terrified.

You know, one time I was somewhere, we had to talk about our most terrifying moment.

And that's when I remember when I was about five, being chased up these stairs to get

away from the boogeyman.

He was probably just trying to scare me, and I don't know if there was anything dangerous

about it.

I remember knocking on the door and I don't remember if anyone answered it. So maybe he

chewed me up. I don't know. Have you heard any of these stories before?

Have you heard that story about the man chasing Beverly?

No.

No, he hasn't.

Good thing he wasn't there.

Yeah.

Tell me some of the chores you did as a child.

I do not remember any.

You had no jobs, no chores, huh?

You were just a free spirit.

My parents probably said, clean up the mess you and your brother made.

Maybe I did that.

I helped with dishes, maybe.

No, I don't remember chores especially.

Do you remember that that's a lot why your brother John was sent to the farm on summers?

Because Grandpa thought he would learn how to work like he and his brothers had done?

I'm just asking, because I think that's what my dad had said one time, is that this

is how a city boy learns to work, go get on the train, go to the farm every summer with

his cousins and work.

I really thought it was to get rid of, so my mother wouldn't have to watch him all

summer, you know, to get rid of, to send him somewhere.

And maybe he knew that he'd have some work experience, and the farm needed that, although

he was younger.

So, your mother wrote.

Was your mother a writer?

She wanted to be a writer.

She wanted to go to Hollywood and write a—

Screenplay or something.

Yeah.

She wrote things.

You know, she was president of the Mutual when she would write—what did Mutual do

in those days?

Scripts or something for them.

Yeah.

She always wanted to be a writer.

So tell me some things about your father that your father taught you about his line, the

Clark Line, and anything that comes to mind in particular, maybe things that he was raised

with.

Well, not so much.

I remember mostly his being a very busy doctor, and his day off was Wednesday.

And he would take us to Lake Geneva, hour and a half drive away.

So there were three of us, so we could swim.

And we waited every Wednesday for him to see patients and get rid of patients so he could

come home and drive us to Lake Geneva.

That's a memory I have.

And he would never get home until about four o'clock, and then we would drive an hour

and a half and go swimming Lake Geneva.

I do not know why it was not Lake Michigan anyway.

But he was always a busy doctor.

And what I remember is driving to church from Evanston to the Edgewater Beach Hotel.

And he would stop at the hospital, Holy Cross Hospital, on the way to church and say, I

will just be a minute.

So he would leave us all in the car waiting, and he would go in and be back in about twenty

minutes and he would say, well, it was a boy, it was a girl.

And so he would be called if someone was ready to deliver, and he would drive us there.

I do not know how many times that happened.

But we would wait in the car while he went in and saw a patient, and he would probably

force the birth, I do not know.

But I remember a lot of times waiting for him to come back and take us wherever.

Yeah.

So, what kind of a surgeon was he?

He was a general practitioner, a GP.

Okay.

Isn't that what they called him?

Exactly.

And remember that influence of Pamelea.

Of all of her sons, Russell was the one that drove the horse and buggy with her to Star

Valley, where she delivered all those babies because she was a midwife.

And that's what put in his head.

You did not want to be a farmer or a dairy or rancher.

Huddleston- Have you interviewed her yet?

Kelly- No, I need to.

Huddleston- You should.

She knows more than I do.

Kelly- That's good.

So what were some of the difficulties that you overcame as a child?

Huddleston- None.

Kelly- You had an easy life, huh?

Huddleston- Difficulties.

Kelly- Did you have any difficulties as a child?

Huddleston- I don't think so.

What about with Grandma Ruby?

Anything about that?

About what?

Grandma Ruby, your mother Ruby.

She just did not want to be a housewife.

But she loved—

I just accepted that.

Okay.

Yeah.

I did not think it was—I do not know if anything was hard.

Maybe everything was.

I do not know.

Weisenberg So you talked about traveling in a car, being

with your father.

Are there any other ways that you traveled other than a car?

Vartanian Well, the train from Chicago to—we leave

from Evanston, Illinois, and get on a train and get off at Evanston, Wyoming.

And then the farmers, the people from Georgetown, would have driven about an hour to get that

train to get us, you know, to meet us, take us to the farm.

So we traveled by train, which I loved.

I just loved train rides.

They were fun.

Did you ever travel by plane when you were younger?

Never.

Never?

Never until my grandparent died when I was in my twenties and I flew for the funeral.

We always—what did you say, a plane?

No, we would always do train.

Beverly, you sent me a picture of a train.

It was called the Challenger.

And it would go—it was famous for—its route was Evanston to Evanston.

Remember that?

Yes, and we took that all the time.

And my favorite thing was going to the dining car for breakfast.

And these black men would come, and they were white things to serve as breakfast.

And that was fun, taking the train.

Did you ever think about God as a child?

I don't think so.

No.

You did when you were ten.

Oh, yes.

Okay.

Tell us about when you were ten.

When I was ten years old, my—who would it have been?

Would it have been Carolee?

One of your cousins, I'm not sure who it was.

Oh, Doris, a cousin Doris.

We got on a horse and we were ten, so we were little.

And our uncles would put us up on this high horse named Diamond, a black horse.

But it was huge to us because we were littler.

And we got on this horse and went off in the snow.

And it was Thanksgiving and all the people had come back for Thanksgiving dinner who

who had lived away.

So we went off on the horse for a ride while the women were fixing the meal.

And yeah, this is important in my life.

We got lost and we were trudging in the snow, the two of us on this big horse, and we got

lost.

And I said, why don't we get off the horse and pray?

And we were 10 and 11 years old.

So we stopped the horse, who was just going slowly, and we got off.

We slid off, and it was a long way.

We were short, and it just seemed that the saddle was about up to here.

So we jumped off, knowing we couldn't get back on the thing, horse, ourselves.

So we got off.

We knelt down in the snow.

I think I said a prayer.

And as soon as I said, amen, around the snowy bush came some of our uncles on horses looking

for us.

So, I always felt that was an answer to prayer.

They came around the corner, put us on the saddles, and took us back for the Thanksgiving

dinner.

And who were some of those uncles?

Oh, who would they have been?

Legrand, probably.

Definitely Legrand.

Uh-huh.

Legrand, Uncle Royal, brothers of my father, Royal, Legrand, Woodruff, I do not know. See,

my father had what, ten men, ten brothers?

JW – Yeah. It was just like your family. Vera and Leora were the only two women, but

there were nine boys in your father's family.

JB – This was in Georgetown. I can see how you can get lost over there. It was a beautiful

Tell me about your first job that you ever had as a teenager.

Well, I do not know.

I guess I did babysitting, but my first job probably was as a freshman at the University

of Utah.

I worked as kind of a secretary to one of the professors.

I don't know if I got paid for it or not.

I didn't do a lot of working.

My parents supported me and I didn't have to, so I was lazy, a lazy child.

I can't believe that.

She is such a list maker and she is president of the Utah Symphony Guild.

So what special talents did you develop in life?

Well, nothing special, but I had piano lessons so I could play the piano.

And—

What?

Organists.

What?

Organists.

Nothing special.

Yeah.

They have an organ in their living room.

Oh, really?

We did have—yeah, because I came to college—have you heard of Alexander Schreiner ever?

Well, he was a very famous—

Is it the Schreiner?

—Mormon.

Oh, okay.

—Orientalist.

When I came up to the University of Utah as a freshman, my dad said, why don't you call

up—no, not why.

He said, you call up Alexander Shriner and take organ lessons, because I had had organ

lessons in high school.

I felt like he was calling the president's wife of the United States or something.

I didn't know how I could do it.

Yeah, Alexander Shriner was a big deal.

For many years, he was the tabernacle organist.

But my dad kept after me, so finally I called up and I said, would you—could I study with

you?

So I lived in a sorority house, and we'd go out late Friday nights on dates.

And Saturday morning, oh my, I had eight roommates, women, girls, and they were all sleeping in.

and I'd get up at five o'clock because I had an organ lesson at nine and I hadn't

practiced all week.

So at five o'clock I'd get up and walk from the house where I was living down to

the chapel and practice for three hours.

Then I'd get a bus and go downtown and have my organ lesson with Alex Schreiner.

And then I'd get back and my roommates were all still sleeping and I'd been up for about

About five hours taking an organ.

From the best organist in the West.

He was good.

He was really good.

So did you ever play at the Tabernacle then?

He let me play once or twice, but just briefly, no I never did.

That's great.

What other talents did you develop?

None.

That's what she says.

She was in charge of all the organists at the Salt Lake Temple for years.

I mean, I've been to tell a few years ago, and she would keep records of what shift,

who would go and play.

Right, Dale?

She would keep track of who it was.

So you were a manager of people?

Yeah, she was.

That's a talent.

I was a musical people.

That's great.

Did you ever move as a teenager?

Well, we moved from Chicago to Evanston.

Oh, why do you mean that?

No, Evanston, Illinois.

Oh, Chicago.

We're Northwestern.

Yeah, from Chicago.

Yeah.

Just, yeah, we moved when I was about nine years old.

I was young.

So, we moved to Evanston, and then I stayed there till college, eighteen, and then I came

to the University of Utah.

And then I married Dale, and we were back east for 15 years.

Chicago, I mean, Washington, Washington, D.C., Philadelphia, and Boston.

And we lived there for 15 years, which I just loved.

And then he got the job.

Boston.

Well, I loved all of them.

You know, growing up in Chicago, I know it's Midwest, but I considered it kind of east,

And I really liked Eastern, all those cities.

Dale came home and said, I have been offered a job in Salt Lake, we are going to move.

And I burst into tears.

I did not want to move to Salt Lake.

I wanted to stay back there, but we moved.

What did you think of Salt Lake when you moved?

Well it was like coming home, because see I had grandparents here and aunts and uncles.

I really loved living in the eastern cities, but I adjusted, didn't I?

I adjusted fast.

Well, yeah, you started at Salt Lake before we left.

Before we were married.

Yeah, that's right.

Because you had been at the university.

I thought you had lived for a while in Glendale.

Didn't you live in Glendale?

You never did.

No, Russell did.

So he and Ruby moved before you—

Well, Ruby didn't live there.

I don't know.

When they divorced, what do I want to say?

I'm too old to do this.

My mother always wanted to move to California.

That was it.

She really liked Hollywood.

He wanted to write scripts and be near famous people.

So, she talked my dad into moving out here, but he couldn't move as a doctor.

He had a busy practice in Chicago, and he couldn't just up and move.

So, Mother took three children and moved here.

And he took a couple of months to close his practice in Chicago.

And then he came out and he started in Glendale as maybe like an intern or something to get

a license for California.

So that is what he did.

And then of course they divorced.

So, what did they get divorced over?

Can I ask?

I do not know.

Do you know a reason?

I think that she always felt like she was under his thumb.

You know, she said she couldn't write.

He wanted her in the house.

She wanted to be out in Hollywood.

Yeah, that's almost true.

Did she end up getting her dream to go to Hollywood?

Well, she wrote.

I don't think they did anything with her script.

They still got her script.

Oh, you do?

Oh, my goodness.

Is it good?

It's pretty good.

And she started a book.

She started this book.

Yeah, never finished it.

And she never finished it.

And my dad said that before he died, he wanted to finish that book.

So we have got a few drafts of it.

So how old were you when the divorce happened?

Teenager, 18, 19, I was at college.

I just started college.

So that was the challenge, I imagine.

Tell me about that challenge.

Well, this is what is interesting.

I had a friend that I knew in California, and she heard through the grapevine and she

She came up to Salt Lake and talked to me one time, and she said to me, did you know

your parents are separated?

And I had no idea.

This is how close our family was.

You knew this, did you?

You had told me this before.

And I had no idea, and she said, your parents are separated.

And then I went home for Thanksgiving.

I was at the University of Utah going to school.

I went home for Thanksgiving and my mother had moved out, but she moved back just for

appearances to have the family together.

And an aunt and uncle were also there, Leora and Carol Lee.

And anyway, my parents had never said anything to me about it.

You know, wonderful conversations, wonderful connections in our family.

They just went ahead, you know.

Why the distance?

Why was there distance, would you say?

Why was there not open conversation?

Oh, because that's how we were all raised.

My dad didn't talk very much.

My mother would love to talk, but my dad didn't talk very much.

He was a quiet man.

Tell me about any boyfriend or girlfriend you had, or a particular date that sticks

out in your mind.

Well, I had a boyfriend when I was fourteen, freshman in high school.

His name was Norman Fidley.

No, something that sticks out.

But anyway, he wanted to go steady.

I remember writing a letter—I probably still have a copy—I wrote a letter to my parents

of why they should allow me to go steady with this boy.

I still have it.

Oh, you still have it?

Oh, I think so.

That's funny.

Because I remember saying in the letter, he's really nice, he doesn't smoke, he doesn't

drink, he's a nice person, and he wants me to go steady, and you ought to allow me

to do that.

And I don't know what they said.

So, did you date a lot?

I always dated a lot, I think, didn't you?

Yeah, Truman Madsen was one of you that you dated for a while.

Tell us about some of those people you dated.

Truman Madsen was one, huh?

Have you heard of Truman Madsen?

I have, yeah.

Yeah, he was cute.

Who else did I date?

I don't know.

I heard there was a Ballard.

Who just died, yeah.

Russell Ballard.

Yeah, Russell Ballard.

Russell Ballard. I had two dates with him. And I don't know, I had a lot of dates in

college.

What was Russell like? What kind of a date was he?

Well, I remember going to a party with twenty people. And the hostess gave us all a piece

of paper and black crayon and said, pick someone in this room and draw a picture of that person.

And so I think she said, pick, maybe they gave us names.

But I drew Russ Ballard.

And so I'm no artist at all, and he was very good looking.

And so I sketched an ugly thing of his.

And then they took all the pictures that we had drawn and pinned them up around.

And we had to go around and guess, you know, who that person was.

Of course, no one would guess Russ Ballard, because the way I drew was just awful.

He was very offended, because he was nice looking.

Isn't he the one that just died?

Yeah.

What?

Isn't he the one that just died?

Yeah, he just died.

Uh-huh.

So, before I go too much further along, tell me the names of the ward that you grew up

in in Chicago.

What was the name of it?

North Shore Ward.

North Shore Ward, Chicago State.

And when you moved to Evanston, what was the name of that ward?

Well, it moved up there.

It was the same ward?

Uh-huh.

My husband and I used to be in that ward.

Oh, okay, North Shore Ward.

Yeah, it was Chicago's Stake, and it had three wards.

South Side was one, University Ward.

Logan Square was one, in Chicago.

And then in Evanston, it was North Shore Ward.

North Shore Ward.

Uh-huh.

So, what was it like being a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints

in Chicago?

Well, I always loved it because I grew up that way.

You know, it was fun.

Did you, did a lot of people show a lot of interest in your church?

Did what?

Did other people show interest in the church in Chicago when they got to know you?

No.

And I didn't influence anyone.

And she's very humble.

I'm sure she did.

Did you participate in any sports at all?

I was captain of the basketball team in seventh grade.

I've told you that.

Interviewer – That's great.

So you were a baller, huh?

Great.

Any other sports?

Oh, I skied a little bit, not much.

I was skiing in the basketball.

Interviewer – So which national or worldwide events affected your childhood and teenage

years?

World War II.

Tell us about that.

Well, I remember rationing, you know, food was rationed.

What else do I remember World War II?

Was gas rationed?

Gasoline was.

Sugar was.

Just a lot of things.

But I did not pay much attention to it, because I just had my friends and I left all that

up to the parents.

So about how old were you in the 40s to the 45s?

Nineteen, fourteen.

Fifteen.

You were fifteen.

Well, during the war was what?

Anyway, I think from eleven to fifteen was during the war.

What about the World's Fair?

Was it that big for you?

No.

No, see that was 1933 and I was only two years old.

But I just remember a lot of uncles coming to visit the World Fair.

Well a lot of relatives came because we lived in Chicago, relatives were all over the West.

And that was always exciting for me to go down to the Union Station and meet the trains

of relatives that were coming to visit Chicago or taking people there to leave Chicago.

That train station was fun.

What was the name of that train station?

Probably Union Station.

I think something like that.

So tell me about Pearl Harbor.

Do you remember that when you first heard about that as a girl?

I don't.

The only thing I remember is that we had these handsome men in the ward that were in the

Coast Guard, the Marines, you know, and they would come every Sunday in their uniforms.

We were thirteen, they were all eighteen, nineteen, twenty-two, and we just always thought

they were so- World War II was kind of romantic.

Terrible to say that the war was romantic, but they were always decked out in the gorgeous

uniforms and handsome, so we all were young and we couldn't be bothered with the war.

We just thought they were—except I do remember going to church at ten o'clock on a Sunday

morning, December 7th, and riding from Evanston to Chicago in the car.

My dad had the radio on, and the news came on that Roosevelt had just announced, we're

going to war.

You know, I can remember that day, December 7th.

1941.

And remember what was happening December 7th, 1941, besides Pearl Harbor?

brother John.

No, what?

He was eight years old, and he got baptized that day, right as the bombs were—

You're kidding.

No, he would tell me that. He would say Pearl Harbor Day was the day he got baptized.

I never knew that.

Oh, you just forgot that.

Okay, I forgot.

He was in the car.

So which brother was that?

John, my dad.

Oh, that's interesting. Okay.

Oh, you got more than you can—

John, my dad.

Oh, that is interesting.

Okay.

Oh, you have got more than you can—

I am still going.

We have not met this guy yet.

That is what I am curious about.

Oh, it is better than him.

He has the good stories.

Did you ever consider serving or helping in the military at some point in your life?

Never.

I was too young.

Did you provide any religious or public service?

No. Just went to church every Sunday.

Okay. You played the organ. That was a service.

Per little while.

What callings did you have in the church?

I was Relief Society President, organist, usually music organist or in charge of the

That was fun to be in charge of.

They used to have special musical things in between talks, and that was fun to do.

She's been quite a hostess too in there, Salt Lake Home, gathering organists who Bonnie

Goodliffe would tell about things.

Anyway, you've had firesides.

Does Richard Elliott ever come to your events?

No.

Do you know him?

Yeah, I know him.

I don't know him.

He's an amazing organist.

He is.

Do you know his background?

No.

In Philadelphia.

Well, he was the organist in Philadelphia.

What's that big organ they have?

The Wanamaker.

The Wanamaker organ.

Yes.

And he played a mat.

He trained in New York and was a fabulous organist.

So he did that Wanamaker organ in New York.

He was wonderful.

He has just come and played in Philadelphia on that organ just in the last couple of years.

Oh, really?

Our stake all flocked.

How about Linda Margatz?

Did you ever work with Linda?

Yeah, I know who she is.

I probably had her help sometimes, you know, telling me people.

I worked with her a little bit.

So, Linda is my mom's second cousin?

Oh, really?

She is lovely.

Good organism.

So, you attended the university at UVU?

Did you attend any other school, any other college or university?

I took some classes somewhere, but no, it was mostly University of Utah.

Got a degree, you know, I was four years, got a degree in—

And music?

English.

English?

No, you know, it was in elementary education.

Oh, was it?

Was it?

Which was so boring.

I wish it had been in English or music.

What were you?

I thought she had majored in English.

I thought she and Barbara had both been in elementary education.

So did you end up teaching then?

In those days, everyone went on to teaching.

Okay.

about.

So you did?

No, I did not because we got married, moved away, had babies, so I never did.

Tell me about this man that you got married to.

Tell me a little bit about how you got to know him.

Well, he is crazy.

No, I met, okay, I had a college roommate that I was very close to, and she came home,

and we lived together somewhere, and she came home one night.

I was falling asleep.

And she said, Beverly, I have just met the one man on this campus I think I could marry

and be happy with.

And I said, what is his name?

And she said, Dale Johnson.

And I thought, what a plain name.

And I turned over and went back to sleep.

And then I married him.

She liked him.

Well, how did you get him and not her?

I do not know.

He just started asking me out.

quit, stopped dating her.

She was a guy I'm hanging.

On our third date, she said, I left her at the door.

She said, aren't you going to kiss me at the door?

This is what my roommate said, aren't you going to kiss me?

And he said, no.

I said, not yet.

Then I met Beverly at a missionary reunion and I decided to date her instead. I had just

come home from South Africa on my mission and I was in college for two years. The third

year of college I met Beverly.

Wait, tell them first that he brought this diamond home from South Africa, and he gave

it to his parents and said, put it in a vault for five years, because I'm going to medical

school and I'm not even going to think about marriage.

That's a great story.

That is a great story.

the time it was. I got admitted to medical school in 1949, and I was dating Beverly that

time. It was kind of complicated in medical school and dating, so I decided it might be

easier if we got married. So we got married December.

He always says it was harder getting married.

Went to undergrad for three years and then they accepted me to medical school. So we had four years at Utah.

And I went to Mass General for a five year residency in surgery in Boston.

and the Korean War was going on and I was going to be drafted.

Instead of being drafted, I said I would volunteer and volunteer to go to the Walter Reed doing research, Walter Reed Institute research.

So we spent two years at Walter Reed and I escaped the war that way.

and came back to the another year of research in Pennsylvania and met Sam Riekup a long time ago.

Have you heard of Dr. Kup?

Oh, very few. Surgeon General.

He became Surgeon General, wasn't he?

Years ago.

He offered me a residency at Children's Hospital of Philadelphia.

So I was there for five or nine years.

I was on the faculty there.

And when he became Surgeon General, he asked me to take his place in Philadelphia.

I said, no, I didn't feel I could be a Surgeon General.

I wouldn't be a good replacement for him. I wanted to go back to Utah anyway.

So I came back to Utah in 1971. I was in medical school from 1952 to 1971.

Not medical school, training.

That's a long time.

That's a long time. But I was the first certified trained pediatric surgeon in Utah.

I shot and became immediately Chief of Surgery at the Department of Children's Hospital.

I served there for thirty-five years, plus the University of Utah and a professor of both.

Wow, that's amazing. That's a neat experience. So, what was the name of the original roommate

that he was dating?

Oh, Kathy?

Kathy what?

Kathy Pearson.

Pearson? Okay, Kathy. Did she end up getting married?

of getting married? Kathy Taylor. John Taylor.

Another South African missionary. Oh really? So did you hang out? Did you continue to hang

out? Oh good. Yeah, we were good friends.

That's great. What was the name of the other South African missionary?

John Taylor. John Taylor.

He was like our surrogate parents when Cliff and I got married and moved to Cincinnati.

They took us under their wing. Oh, that's great.

But Beverly, you need to tell Kimball about when Dale asked you to go steady.

You had this—

Oh, yes, yes.

Well, one night, I guess he gave me his fraternity pin, and that means something.

So the next morning, we went to his house.

He took me to his house, and he has a brother that came in, and his mother said to the brother,

aren't you going to kiss your new sister-in-law?

And I don't know what happened, but then we went outside for him to drive me home,

and I said, Dale—he had said, sister-in-law implied marriage, and we had never talked

about anything.

And so I said, Dale, do you think we're going to get married someday?

And Dale said, one usually expects to marry the one that one gives one's pin to.

And I just thought that's the most stuffy thing.

One usually expects to marry the one that one gives one's fraternity pin to.

And then I said, when?

And he hadn't even thought beyond that.

And he said, well, maybe in June.

And I said, how about December, six months earlier?

Because he was going to be in school, and I thought, why?

Why wait?

Wait.

Why torture yourself?

So we did.

Good.

Oh, that's sweet.

So what did you like about Dale?

Everything.

that he was just very quiet, because I had gone with a lot of loud boys, I think, loud

boyfriends, I don't know.

And he was just polite and quiet, I guess.

What did I like about you, do you remember?

I don't know.

Well, what did you like about her?

Oh, good question.

She was beautiful and warm and loving.

I just attracted her more than her friend. The one I refused to kiss.

And I thought Kathy Pearson Taylor was beautiful.

Yeah, she was.

She's died since then.

She had a different personality. I didn't make sure.

I am always pretty glad that I did not marry her.

You married a friend of mine, Hope.

She is a shop African missionary.

That is great.

All right, so you were employed throughout your marriage.

You were employed.

Now were you ever working throughout your marriage?

I worked for one of the professors at the university for the first year, and then started

having children.

So tell me about your children that you have.

We have four children, two girls, two boys.

What's their full names?

Their full names, well the first one is Pamela, named after my grandmother.

Second one is Paul, the next is Charlotte.

Charlotte is a relative too, a lot of Charlottes in the family.

And then Peter is the second.

Pam, Paul, Charlotte, Peter, two girls, two boys.

over in medical school and the second two children went over to Mass General. I was

Mass General, I was on call every day and every night for five years. Its salary was

twenty-five dollars a month. The Breville didn't seem every other because I was usually

I was usually operating all night. But we had friends in Austin. We actually had a good

time there. But we also had two children while we were there.

Wow. But off of very little income. You said $25 a month?

Yeah. My dad helped us.

Russell helped.

The gasoline didn't notice that it was 25 billion gallons.

Tell me about your relationship with your spouse now.

With him?

Well, we have divorce papers coming up.

He is wonderful.

He is kind.

Very kind and helpful.

So, what joys have you had in your relationship? What joys did you have in your relationship

throughout your life?

Our children.

Your children?

Having our children.

Our children, our families, our relatives. It's been a nice marriage.

What experiences did you have that were hard to overcome and that you overcame?

In our marriage?

Yeah.

Probably, I've been more active in church than Dale has, but I've gotten over it.

But I think for years, you know, I wanted him to—I really wanted him to get up every

Sunday morning and say, get up kids, get dressed, we're going to church.

And that isn't—he's not like that.

Anyway, but he's been supportive of everything I've done.

crossed me or argued anything.

So no divorces or additional marriages, this is it?

You guys got married and you stayed together the whole way through.

What's your secret sauce?

Pick the right person, I guess.

Well, my parents had divorced, so I didn't want anything like that.

That probably made a difference.

In fact, I can remember, I took organ lessons from this woman years ago, and I can remember

at a, when I was playing an organ for her, a lesson, a lesson.

And I think I started crying and thought, my parents are getting a divorce, how, you

know, what'll happen?

And she said to me, you'll work all the harder to make your marriage work, because

you've seen, you know, what's happened in your family.

But I didn't have to work hard.

He was easy.

So, we should have asked you all these questions.

Oh my goodness, I love hearing this.

This is such a treat for me to be hearing this from you.

So what are your thoughts about parenting?

Parenting.

Parenting, well, I guess you have to kind of give free rein to your kids. You can't

be too overpowering and insistent, you know, on what they do or what they don't do. Just

try and guide them right, I guess. What would you say?

That's so good. Thank you. I love that.

What happens when you get too insistent?

When you get what?

When you get too insistent and you get too overpowering.

Oh, then something backfires.

They go the other way sometimes.

Yeah.

But he was always—did anything ever backfire?

I don't think so.

Yeah, I don't either.

Did you—

Yeah, George Murray.

He was easy to live with.

He probably—

Very good.

We did.

Good.

Did you have any miscarriages or stillborns or any children pass away?

I have four children and the fifth was a miscarriage, and that's all.

And it wasn't crushing or anything.

It just happened.

And I thought four is enough.

Did you have miscarriages?

So tell me about raising teenagers specifically.

Do you have any advice for raising teenagers?

Well, no, I do not know.

I have a friend, and she used to say that when her kids came home from dates, she would

say, oh, come tell me about it.

here's a cup of cocoa and let's sit and talk. I remember being—I'd sit by the

clock, I guess, and watch out the window for the headlights and be mad when they came home,

because it was too late. I wanted to be in bed asleep, but I felt I should wake up for

them. And so did you wake up for all of yours?

I stayed up for mine, because my mother did for us.

Really?

And my husband went to bed, and we didn't give them a curfew, which I did not.

So it sounds like you lived all over the nation.

You lived all over the country.

East and west.

So where did your family vacation typically?

Well sometimes just coming home to see grandparents in Utah.

From the east we'd come home, use our vacations here.

One time we went to Lake Winnipesaukee up in New York.

We went to Canada once. We got into trouble crossing the lake. We crossed the lake in

a boat. They gave us a boat that was really a rowboat. We had a terrible time crossing

the lake when we got to where we were going. Do you remember that, Beth?

It was a five-day vacation to Lake Winnipesaukee, I think.

After the first day, we turned around and came home.

It just wasn't working out.

We weren't campers or something.

I don't know.

That's why we lived in Boston.

What pets did you have as a family?

Did you have any family pets?

We had a dog named Brigham, like Brigham Young.

For a while we had that.

That's enough.

We had Brigham in Philadelphia.

So was there any national or worldwide event that affected your children and your young

family?

I don't think so.

I spent two years at Walter Reed Institute of Research to get out of the Korean War and

Korean War and making a captain. They'd start to really go to get drunk every afternoon.

I resigned from the Army as soon as the two years were over. I never went to the Army

I was actually in the church at those days.

So we're already an hour in the interview.

Do you want to take a quick break?

Oh.

Are you okay to keep going?

Well, isn't that enough?

We're an hour in. No, we've got one more hour left, probably a little less than an hour left.

Because we haven't, well, not an hour, probably maybe another 30 minutes.

Oh, it doesn't matter. It doesn't matter.

Do you need a glass of water?

I usually like to stop after an hour.

Do you want a glass of water?

I'm okay. I can go ahead and solve it.

Do you want water?

Would you like some water Beverly?

I would be happy to go in there and get some water.

I'll unclip this if you want to get some.

Oh, for god, I'll get some water for you.

Oh.