But he had a little automotive shop on Main Street.
And I was working with him.
Dave Steiner had this little automotive shop.
I was working with him.
And he took automotive in high school.
So in the Navy, I finally said, the only thing I know

- - - 00:00:20 - - -

is mechanics.
And I said, OK.
So next, we got to finish basic training,
give us a week's leave, come home, then went back.
And we were supposed to get on a ship for Panama.

- - - 00:00:40 - - -

The boiler blew up, we had problems with the boiler,
so we had to spend another week in San Diego.
And then finally went to, took the boat or ship
down to Panama, went through the Panama Canal, got off the ship, and was stationed at

- - - 00:01:00 - - -

the Cocosolo Naval Air Station. And fortunately I got to work in the engine repair shop.
It was quite the duty.

- - - 00:01:20 - - -

It was interesting because the Air Force was right across the fence from our building.
Our building was right on the property line with the Air Force.
And the Air Force had to take their planes

- - - 00:01:40 - - -

and cross the highway and go up to the runway
and then take off on the runway.
And if we had any land-based planes,
they had to cross the highway
and they'd have to open up the fence gate

- - - 00:02:00 - - -

and turn the red light on, stop the traffic,
planes would go across and go up to the runway
and use the Air Force's runway.
Most of our planes were sea base,
seagoing planes, PVYs.

- - - 00:02:20 - - -

So the engines that you worked on were plane engines?
Yeah. Oh wow.
Yeah, R2800s.
It was in our cell.
I lucked out because the lieutenant that was over me,

- - - 00:02:40 - - -

we would get the engines that would come in off the engine
test stand was way out on the end of the runway.
And they'd take the engines out there and run them up,

- - - 00:03:00 - - -

and then bring them in.
and then I'd have to check the valve clearances
and pickle the engines.
And there was three Panamanians that was working there with me
and this lieutenant came to me one day and he says,

- - - 00:03:20 - - -

Ellis, he says, I don't wanna see you working anymore.
He said, the next time that engine has to be raised up,
I want you up in that overhead crane.
So he took me over to show me how to operate the crane.
And so, from then on, then, I wrote that right down to the work.

- - - 00:03:40 - - -

And I had a good job because at night, I would have to take the weapons carrier and go to
the chow hall, get food, and take it out to the engine test stand so that the person out
there would be a pushing station down there
and they'd test him at night

- - - 00:04:00 - - -

and he'd be out there all night.
So I'd take food out to him at night,
come back and put the weapons carrier in the building
and lock it up.
Then in the morning I'd go and unlock the building,
get the weapons carrier, go get more food,
and take it out to him.
And so I had to have good duty.

- - - 00:04:20 - - -

But I got malaria.
That kinda changed the future.
Tell me about that.
I was walking over to the building
to get the weapons carrier in the morning

- - - 00:04:40 - - -

and I walked past this hole,
all right next to the sidewalk,
and this mosquito came out of that hole and got me
and it felt like a bee sting.
A few days later, we had to stand inspection.

- - - 00:05:00 - - -

I was standing out there and I was weaving around.
And they looked at me and he says,
take that man out.
So they took me out and I went to the dispensary
and they checked me over and said, yep, you got malaria.
So they transported me to the hospital.

- - - 00:05:20 - - -

So I spent some time in the hospital.
Did you get close to death, you feel? Oh, no. I'll tell you, I was sick enough that I wanted to die. In fact, I prayed all night to die, but couldn't do it.
So did you ever have any near-death experiences serving in the Navy? No. No. We trained once a week, or once a month.

- - - 00:05:40 - - -

a month we had training, the Marine Corps trained us for riot duty in case the Panamanians

- - - 00:06:00 - - -

try and take over the canal. Because at that time the Panamanians wanted to take over the
canal and we still had a few years left on our lease. And we said no way. But we had
to train, the Marines was training us once a month for that. No, and then we had some

- - - 00:06:20 - - -

Russian ships, Russian master ship, and five, five sailing ships came and wanted to go

- - - 00:06:40 - - -

through the Panama Canal.
And they said, no, you're not going through the canal.
And they put them out there in the breakwater.
And I spent three days in a little boat
riding around on the,
making sure we had a submachine gun that wouldn't work

- - - 00:07:00 - - -

and a .45 pistol on the radio that wouldn't work.
Why couldn't you let the Russians through the Panama Canal?
They finally did.
But they watched them all the way through.

- - - 00:07:20 - - -

What was the concern politically?
I don't know.
They don't know.
And how big were these ships?
Oh, the master ship was a big ship.
Oh, the master ship was a big ship. But the sailing boats were a good size. I'd say they were 30, 40 feet long. They were a pretty good size.

- - - 00:07:40 - - -

Interesting. Well, I thought they were allies. I thought they were with us.
Well, they were and they weren't.

- - - 00:08:00 - - -

As you know, Russia was...
I don't know, I don't think the United States ever trusted Russia completely.
They showed us a film where Germany had just about taken control of Russia.

- - - 00:08:20 - - -

And the United States went in and they built a road across one of the lakes that had frozen over,
and moved all of the equipment and everything that Russia had over into that one area,
fortified it with United States help. And then they was able to defeat the Germans.

- - - 00:08:40 - - -

Russia was then able to break out of it from the Germans.
But oh, they have something else.
So what did you think about the war as a young man when you heard about Pearl Harbor and...

- - - 00:09:00 - - -

We heard about Pearl Harbor walking home from church.
We were down on First Western State Street when we heard that.
And yeah, oh that was something else.

- - - 00:09:20 - - -

And that was a funny thing.
These kids, they'd have scrap drives.
You know, they'd go around and gather up scrap and take it into them.
And they were shipping scrap iron to Japan.

- - - 00:09:40 - - -

And then they turned around and bombed us.
You know?
They had something else.
Yeah, all through high school they just wonder,
am I gonna have to be drafted or not, you know?
And some of my friends, they quit high school

- - - 00:10:00 - - -

and joined the Navy and stuff.
Did any of your friends pass away in the war?
No.
How about your family members?
Did any of your family members join the military
or was it just you?

- - - 00:10:20 - - -

Well,
Uncle Ed had
Stanford, Norman, and Harlow that were drafted.
Uncle Orson had nothing but girls, and his boys were too young.
Uncle Rulon, his oldest boy, was drafted.

- - - 00:10:40 - - -

And then his second son, he joined the Navy and became a pharmacist and a carpenter.

- - - 00:11:00 - - -

He was a medical people.
And he later became an architect and did a lot of work on the Los Angeles Temple.

- - - 00:11:20 - - -

So speaking of religion, how was it as a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day
Saints in the military serving in the Navy?
Well, there was nobody on my base other than one person,

- - - 00:11:40 - - -

other than myself, that was a member of the church.
And there were three fellows from Magna
that had grown up together, that joined the Navy.
And two of them were stationed in the Navy headquarters

- - - 00:12:00 - - -

in Panama City and the other fellow was stationed where I was and he and I became buddies and
we were on different watches.
So the day he was on duty, I was off duty.

- - - 00:12:20 - - -

So, but I took leave one day.
He made arrangements with some, one of his friends.
they had a car and made arrangements.
We drove over to Panama City and went to church one time.
Well, how many years were you in Panama?

- - - 00:12:40 - - -

It was 18 months.
Wow.
Only 18 months, it was only two years.
Did you learn Spanish?
No, I did not learn Spanish.
I was gonna try and learn Spanish,
And these two guys that I was working with, the condominiums,

- - - 00:13:00 - - -

they said, oh, we'll teach you Spanish.
And they'd say, say such and such.
And I don't think that's quite right.
And I asked somebody, no.
Got swear words.
And I said, forget it, boys.
Don't forget it.
I'll deal with you.
So you talked about a mission.

- - - 00:13:20 - - -

Tell us about your mission experience.
Well, okay. I came home from the service and, well, this is interesting.
I came home from this, when I came home from the service, the four of us,

- - - 00:13:40 - - -

the three from Magna and myself were sitting out on the deck of the ship
and we were talking. The three of them says,
First thing I knew when I get home,
is I'm gonna get married so I don't have to go on a mission.
And I said, I wanna work with the scouts.

- - - 00:14:00 - - -

So a week after I got home,
I was called to be assistant scout master.
And that was a big, I liked that.
We had a lot of fun.
The scout master was a real scouter.
What was his name?
Max Muir.

- - - 00:14:20 - - -

He built a house right there on Third North and First East.
He worked at Hillfield.
Anyway, I came home from my mission,

- - - 00:14:40 - - -

or came home from the service,
And Wesley Williams had a little auto body shop
just right down there, right back of the service station
where the service station is.

- - - 00:15:00 - - -

I worked for him.
He was refinishing and doing cars,
fixing cars that had been damaged
and fixing them up and painting them.
And I'm working with him.
water sanding the cars and my fingers just, you know, so numb, so thin with all the water and that sandpaper.

- - - 00:15:20 - - -

And after about the awesome July, August, September, you know, in September, September I said I've had enough of this, so I went to work for Hillfield.

- - - 00:15:40 - - -

Hillfield. And I worked at Hillfield in the B-29 storage area. And this fellow that I
became friends with, his family, and well, my father had a relative in Magna, and he

- - - 00:16:00 - - -

introduced my father to this fellow's family that moved up to the experimental farm's property up on North Ogden.

- - - 00:16:20 - - -

And so between the two of them,
told me about, told my folk, and between them we got together in the Navy, so we,
that happened that we were both working in the buildings,

- - - 00:16:40 - - -

crossing each other.
But anyway, came home and this relative,
he told my folks, he said,
let's go up to the Salt River and go fishing,
camping on the Salt River in Wyoming.
Okay, so we go up there, go fishing.

- - - 00:17:00 - - -

go fishing. And this fellow, this friend of mine, had a sister, and she used to have it in high school. So I got kind of friendly with her. And then I started dating her.
And I'd go to church and the mission would say, are you ready to go on a mission yet? I'd say no, not yet. I've had malaria, I can't go.

- - - 00:17:20 - - -

And I saw, and it got going down, after 18 months,
and I thought, this girl's going to graduate from high school,
and this is just before Christmas.
And I thought, I've got to make a decision.

- - - 00:17:40 - - -

Do I ask this girl to go steady with me,
or do I go on a mission?
So I said, I better pray about it.
So I prayed about it and I had a dream.
And I dreamed that this girl got engaged.

- - - 00:18:00 - - -

So the next day, or next night, Saturday night,
I go to pick her up.
First thing she does when she comes in the room.
I got engaged last night.
So.
What was that girl's name?
Elma Don Kirk.

- - - 00:18:20 - - -

So anyway, I went to church the next morning and Melvin Hess was the bishop and I said,
I said, I'm ready to go on a mission now.

- - - 00:18:40 - - -

So, filled out the papers, and we were always called to go to the West Canadian Mission,
Western Canadian Mission, which comprised British Columbia, Alberta, and Saskatchewan.

- - - 00:19:00 - - -

And so we had all three provinces.
I labored in Edmonton.
My first companion, I was in Edmonton.

- - - 00:19:20 - - -

And Eldon Tanner was branch president.
And they rented the old masonry hall,
Mason Hall or something, one of those halls.
So, one day, my missionary companion,

- - - 00:19:40 - - -

he was one of these upper-clad people from Salt Lake,
and he says, I haven't been out to dinner for a long time.
He said, I'm going to ask Sister Tanner
if she'll invite us to dinner.
So he did. And we got invited to dinner with the tenors.

- - - 00:20:00 - - -

Yeah, and then we had, we were, on Saturdays, we would go and work and help build a church over on the west, south side of Edmonton.

- - - 00:20:20 - - -

And then I got transferred to West Summerland, which is the interior of British Columbia.
And that's right along the Okanogan Lake, and a nice farm and fruit area.

- - - 00:20:40 - - -

And then I started getting sick.
And I went to, and I said, well, you better go spend some time
with the district president.

- - - 00:21:00 - - -

So Jack Gosland, who became one of the members of the Seventy,
was the district president.
And down there with him, he said, we've got to go.
We've got to hold a conference over in Columbia,
British Columbia.
And so we'll go down to that, over to that.

- - - 00:21:20 - - -

So I went down to Kelowna, held a conference,
held a little conference, and the next day is Monday,
and he says, we gotta go over to Cranbrook.
And so we go over to Cranbrook, watch the ski jump.

- - - 00:21:40 - - -

Ha ha, guys do a ski jump,
and come off that jump right down into town.
And Goldblum was on Tuskegee at the university
before he went on his mission.
So anyway, then they transferred me back to the mission home,

- - - 00:22:00 - - -

this mission berth.
And I was in the mission home for quite some time
Stephen L Richards came up and he stayed in the mission home.
Before he was going to dedicate the new chapel.

- - - 00:22:20 - - -

So I got to visit with him.
And, uh,
so,
anyway,

- - - 00:22:40 - - -

a short time later,
I went upstairs to the third floor
to where the missionaries were to go to work.
And the two sisters were standing there talking,
another sister was standing there talking
to the two sisters, and all I saw was the back of her.

- - - 00:23:00 - - -

And my spirit said,
sometime I wanna date that girl, that sister.
Oh.
So anyway, pass it off.
Didn't think anything more about it.
She was transferred to Vancouver, British Columbia.

- - - 00:23:20 - - -

And after I finished my time in the mission home,
I was transferred to Vancouver.
And his sister and her companion
were laboring in little towns right next to Vancouver.
and they would come into church,

- - - 00:23:40 - - -

all the missionaries would gather at the church on Saturdays
and we'd get together and mess around.
For some reason, I never shook her hand.
And went on for quite a while.
And then one day, I was stationed,

- - - 00:24:00 - - -

they put me with the district president again
because my health was acting up.
And this sister calls the district president and says,
I need to have a blessing, I've got a bad headache,

- - - 00:24:20 - - -

I can't work.
So we go over for a blessing.
A short time later, I started writing to her.
And I wrote to her a few months, a couple of months,
and then she's transferred to Victoria,

- - - 00:24:40 - - -

and I'm transferred over to Nanaimo on the island.
And then I finished my mission.
Then Nanaimo went down to Victoria, saw her, said goodbye,
caught the ferry over to Seattle, and came home.
And then I wrote to her for nine months.

- - - 00:25:00 - - -

She came home, we dated.
She came home on Friday, and we dated Friday night,
Saturday night, I gave her a cage for him.
And Christmas, that was the first of December,

- - - 00:25:20 - - -

And at Christmastime, I went down to her place,
went to California to visit with her folks at Christmastime.
Spent the week with them, came home,
and then in April conference,

- - - 00:25:40 - - -

she came up for a couple of days.
And then in June, we were married in the temple,
and Grandpa married us in the temple.
Edward, wow, he was a sealer.
He was the sealer.

- - - 00:26:00 - - -

He had married most of his grandkids.
He was able to be married.
That's cool.
So what was her name, the woman you married?
Beverly Hathaway Ellis.
That's her name.

- - - 00:26:20 - - -

So Hathaway was her maiden name.
That's her maiden name.
Got it.
And it turned out that her brother was working,
was going to the University of Utah
and working with my father building homes in Salt Lake.
Ah.
Building homes, was it bricklaying,

- - - 00:26:40 - - -

or is it framing, or everything?
Oh, yeah.
My dad did the framing on homes in Glendale and Rose Park.
Now, I forget the Richards.
Well, the Richards was a real estate man.

- - - 00:27:00 - - -

He's the one that bought the land.
So my dad was working for Dollar's Construction Company.
embellished construction company, built a lot of those homes.
What was it about your wife that attracted you to her

- - - 00:27:20 - - -

when you first met her?
I don't know.
I don't know what it was,
because the only thing I saw was the back of her
on the spirits, you know.
Someday I wanna date her.
And you know,
She was nothing else than any of the other people.

- - - 00:27:40 - - -

But as you came to know her, what did you like about her?
Oh, she was just quiet.
I don't know.
I don't know.

- - - 00:28:00 - - -

There was just something that kind of clicked there, I don't know.
So where did you go on your honeymoon?
Well, we got married in the Salt Lake Temple and had a reception here in Farmington.

- - - 00:28:20 - - -

We went to South Gate, California, where she lived, where folks lived, and had a reception there.
And then we came back, one way home we went to the Lions and went to different parks and

- - - 00:28:40 - - -

came home.
home. And I was working at Lagoon. I had a job at Lagoon managing the

- - - 00:29:00 - - -

roller coaster for that summer. But Preston Clark was the roller coaster
manager when I first came home from my mission, and so I worked with him on the

- - - 00:29:20 - - -

roller coaster. And we had some fun. We had some dates. I took this Elnadon and he took...
Oh, I forgot her name.

- - - 00:29:40 - - -

She's a Morgan.
I forgot her.
Pauline Morgan, he later married her.
He got engaged to her before he went on his mission.

- - - 00:30:00 - - -

But we dated a few times.
But I don't know.
So was this woman that you married,
were you married to her until recently?

- - - 00:30:20 - - -

Did she pass away recently?
Or is it, okay, one marriage.
Married to her for 69 and a half years.
Wow.
What's the secret to a long lasting marriage?
Just don't argue.
Ha ha ha ha.
So you never argued?

- - - 00:30:40 - - -

I don't give in once in a while.
Okay.
How many children did you have?
I had two boys. We were only permitted to have two. We lost six.
Oh really? Tell me about those six.
Well they were only about, she was only pregnant about three and a half months before she'd lose them.

- - - 00:31:00 - - -

Huh.
She just couldn't carry them.
Well, it was kind of interesting too.

- - - 00:31:20 - - -

Well, the second year I was working at Lagoon, I started, there was two girls that were going
to college at BYU and one girl's parents moved into Rose Park and so they were living in

- - - 00:31:40 - - -

Rose Park and working at Lagoon. And her parents originally were from Alaska. But these two
girls back and forth would come and go to Salt Lake all the time. All of a sudden one

- - - 00:32:00 - - -

and one of the fellows that was working at Lagoon
took a liking to the one that was from Alaska.
And so one night he says,
hey Richard, he says, why don't you ride home with me?

- - - 00:32:20 - - -

Go home, ride home with me to take these two girls home.
Ah, what the heck, you know, okay.
So this one girl's on the front seat, the other's in the back seat, and here we are in a convertible.

- - - 00:32:40 - - -

It's at midnight and we're going into Salt Lake and you can imagine the cold.
This girl says, I'm cold, come sit next to me.
So I'm a dummy, I'm […] words and fire.
What's your number on me?
So I dated her a few times and the funny thing is I was waiting for my wife, the girl that I was

- - - 00:33:00 - - -

writing to, to come home waiting for her to call me.
And I get a call from this girl on the date.
I had to turn her down.

- - - 00:33:20 - - -

Well, that's something else.
I've had quite the life.
So the two boys that you had, what were their names?
David Richard Ellis,

- - - 00:33:40 - - -

Timothy Hathaway Ellis.
Were they named after anyone?
No.
I kind of liked, well we put David with my name, and Timothy, I liked the name Timothy.

- - - 00:34:00 - - -

And so I, and I don't know why, but I kind of liked Timothy.
So I named him Timothy.

- - - 00:34:20 - - -

But he doesn't particularly like it.
So he goes by Tim.
So what were your thoughts about being a parent for the first time?
Oh, that's so long ago I can't remember.
It was interesting because I was going to Utah State University.

- - - 00:34:40 - - -

We were living in an old army barracks building at Utah State.

- - - 00:35:00 - - -

I was going to,
while I was taking automotive classes,
March, the last part of March,
My wife says, I gotta go to the hospital.

- - - 00:35:20 - - -

So I took her down to the hospital and got her settled in.
The doctor comes in and he says, you had your breakfast? I said, no. He says, this is gonna take a long time. He says, you can go home and have your breakfast.

- - - 00:35:40 - - -

So I went home and had breakfast,
I went to school, I was in class, I told the instructor, I said,
my wife's in the hospital having a baby.
He says, get out of here, go down to the hospital.
So I went down to the hospital and went up to the room and

- - - 00:36:00 - - -

my wife says, I got a headache.
She asked the nurse, can I have an aspirin?
The nurse says, yes.
She got an aspirin.
I took the aspirin and she says, I think it's coming.
My baby was born.

- - - 00:36:20 - - -

So, we had quite the time.
So do you have any suggestions about being a good parent?
Just work with them.

- - - 00:36:40 - - -

Show them love.
Do things with them.
Were these two boys, were they at the end of their six children or were they born between
the other six that didn't make it?

- - - 00:37:00 - - -

They were the first born.
Oh, they were the first.
The first born and then it was after that that she had all the miscarriages.
How old was she when she had the first two? Do you recall? Was she in her 20s or 30s?
20s.
20s.
26? I think she was 26. 27. She was 27. And I was 26.

- - - 00:37:20 - - -

So did you ever go on vacation with your family?
Oh, yes.
Where did you go?

- - - 00:37:40 - - -

My immediate family? Yeah, your own family. Oh, yeah. Oh, we had a camper.
We got a camper later in life.
We used to go fishing a lot and

- - - 00:38:00 - - -

Beverly's cousin and her husband
and had a summer home, had his parents all in Fairview.
And we would go down to Fairview,
they'd come up every year for,
spend a month in fair, in Utah,
and they would go fishing up in the Fairview Canyon.

- - - 00:38:20 - - -

And they'd call us up and say,
hey, fishing's good, come on down.
So we'd be down there and go fishing,
We'd take the kids down to completion.
And then we'd go to camp and we'd take the camper down
and take the kids.

- - - 00:38:40 - - -

Sometimes we'd go up in the U.N. to us.
Then we graduated from the camper.
We went, got a big trailer.
Used the trailer to go places, different places.

- - - 00:39:00 - - -

So you spoke about Hill Air Force Base working there.
How many years did you work there?
Well, after I got out of college, I worked for a, I was working at Lando and when the

- - - 00:39:20 - - -

season ended, I went to work for a company in Salt Lake that did electrical
equipment on semi trucks. And that was in November when I started with them.

- - - 00:39:40 - - -

And a Christmas time, the owner came to me and said, do you have a liquor license?
And I said, no.
So he got someone else.
They set the bar up, the parks counter up.
It was a bar.
With all these guys, truck drivers coming in.

- - - 00:40:00 - - -

There was a mess.
I said, this isn't for me. I've got to find another job.
And there was a missionary reunion.
And the fellow that I went to school with, Jake Barton,
and Martin Loder. I was talking with him and he said, well come work for me. So I said okay, I'll go work for you.

- - - 00:40:20 - - -

So I quit that job and went to work for Jake Barton and come to find out, he would send two boys back east in an old car

- - - 00:40:40 - - -

and they scrapped the car when they got back to Detroit,
and they would get two cars, this is Dodge and Plymouth,
and they'd get two cars, they'd drive one and tow one home.
And then the mechanic would take them

- - - 00:41:00 - - -

to the odometer's clinic.
And the chief, the policeman of the North Salt Lake
took his car into a place in Salt Lake
to have the odometer checked for accuracy.
And then I said, you got a used car, how can you tell?

- - - 00:41:20 - - -

Somebody's been messing up the odometer.
So the policeman came and confronted Jake Barton
and the kid would go, yeah.
and I said, I'm getting out of here.

- - - 00:41:40 - - -

So I hired in at Hill Fielding again,
and I worked up there as a stat draftsman.
Went from stat draftsman to engineering draftsman
to engineering aide, and then to a management analyst.

- - - 00:42:00 - - -

Worked as a management analyst until I retired.
I had a total of 40 years with the government when I retired.
Wow. What were your thoughts about working for the government?
Well, at the time, it was good and bad.

- - - 00:42:20 - - -

I think one of the things that, when I was working with the B-29 storage area,
They all of a sudden told us, stop, don't do any more.
And this was in, close to late 49.

- - - 00:42:40 - - -

And I couldn't figure out what was happening.
And I got transferred into the engine repair building.
I was working in there and then all of a sudden, oh stop, no more, I can't carry more engines.

- - - 00:43:00 - - -

All that workloads going to San Antonio.
I knew I was transferred into the warehouse.
I didn't know what was going on.

- - - 00:43:20 - - -

But in 1950, there was a commander that was trying to close the old Air Force Base down.
And there were some people that found out about it, and they was sad about what was
going on.
And somehow they got a senator to come to Utah, and he came so that nobody knew that

- - - 00:43:40 - - -

knew that he was coming.
And he came, and they picked him up, took him up to Hillfield,
and took him around Hillfield and showed him
all the good stuff, what was happening

- - - 00:44:00 - - -

and what they were losing.
And then after they got through, they took him back to Salt Lake.
And he acted just as if he had just arrived.
They picked him up, took him up to the Hill Air Force Base,
and showed him just the opposite.
And so then that senator went back and was able to convince him to keep the Air Force base.

- - - 00:44:20 - - -

But it was quite something.
But it was up and down, just depends on the boss you had, you know.
But I had some good times and some bad, and I was able to make some of the bad times turn out to be good times.

- - - 00:44:40 - - -

How so? What do you mean by that?
Well, I was working for this old engineer, and he was an alcoholic.

- - - 00:45:00 - - -

But he could go all the way without drinking, excepting at night.
And in their carpooling stop at the liquor store, by a fifth of whiskey, and all those

- - - 00:45:20 - - -

in the carpool would drink the whiskey going home.
And on Saturday and Sunday, he'd spend all his time in the doghouse drinking.
But he'd come to work and if you thought you had been drinking, you were out.

- - - 00:45:40 - - -

But he knew I didn't drink and so he never had any problems with him.
But fortunately the big boys didn't like him and they wanted to get rid of him.
So they put him, instead of him being in charge, they put somebody over him.

- - - 00:46:00 - - -

And we were in a different organization.
And so when I, they put, actually what they did is they made three.